Curious About Messages From The Wild

Helena Podcast Intro (: 00:00:00

Welcome to the Curious About Nature Podcast. This is a podcast for folks who want to connect with nature and re wild childhood, hosted by Rachel Mills, Buttercup Learnings founder, an educator with 20-plus years of experience with a passion for animation, the natural world and conservation. Rachel focuses on getting digital kids outdoors and having fun in nature, promoting well-being and a can-do attitude to local wildlife conservation and sustainable living. Join her and her guests for their stories, experiences and tips to support outdoor learning and nature connection.

Rachel (: 00:00:45

Welcome to The Curious About Nature Podcast. Today I'm joined by Annabel Ross, audio producer and founder of Messages from the Wild. Hello Annabel.

Annabel (: 00:00:55

Hi Rachel. Nice to see you.

Rachel (: 00:00:57

Yeah, it's lovely to see you again. For those who've never met you before, could you tell us a little bit about who you are and your background?

Annabel (: 00:01:06

My background is in audio, as in I used to work for BBC World Service Radio, but that was, um, African news, actually live news in the late nineties, early two thousands. And then I moved to Tanzania where I produced radio drama programs for education. And so I've always had a passion for radio or audio, which radio is more and more just becoming an audio thing cuz radio isn't the same as it used to be. And so, um, and then after 10 years in Tanzania, I came back to England and studied nutrition, which is another story. But in the end I started the podcast of Messages from the Wild to try and give a voice to nature. Yeah, yeah.

Rachel (: 00:01:52

Can you tell us a little bit more about what messages from the Wild, how does it work?

Annabel (: 00:01:57

Um, some people think it's a bit bonkers actually, but others don't. Others grasp it and love it. Um, but I think I've had some experts who've literally just sort of deleted my email thinking, right, I need to go to the nearest hospital. Um, messages from the world started when I was, because I had a background in nutrition and in audio, and I was trying to combine the two. So I went down to Devon to interview someone about composting thinking, yes, I'll interview them with my microphone and I'll record an interview and I'll talk about composting cuz that's good for the nutrition side of my life. But actually, afterwards, I thought, this isn't gonna really work as a sort of, this isn't gonna get many subscribers, let's say, or followers. So I asked the amazing Nikki Scott, who's also known as Dr. Compost, to take on the role of an earthworm and answer on behalf of an earthworm.

Annabel (: 00:02:50

So for five minutes I talked to him quite sensibly as an earthworm. It's not a joke, you know, it's not a sort of silly voice or anything. It is talking about their life and their environment and how they survive in this world and what we should really be doing maybe to help them. And so it's more about understanding what it is like to be an earthworm and therefore respecting them and protecting them because all animals need protecting and respecting. But this way where I talk to the animal, as it were, which is how I describe it, but that may sound weird, but that's how I like to think of it. Obviously, the expert embodies the animal, but by talking to the animal, you feel more empathy for them and it sort of sticks in your head. And so the earthworm sort of kicked it off and it was so successful in the feedback that I then did several more.

Annabel (: 00:03:41

And now I've done about 30, um, several years later, but I've also been working on other projects. So it's a different way of giving nature a voice. And I have learnt so much from interviewing these people. And so have all the people who give feedback to me, they say, I, I had no idea about this, or I had no idea about that even though I thought I did. So I'm just one of the ones more like you Rachel. I'm just another trying to say, come on, these animals are much, much, much more important than us humans.

Rachel (: 00:04:13

Yeah. What I love about messages from the wild is, um, that it doesn't matter about what age you are, you can enjoy it whether you're eight or 80. Um, my daughter who's seven absolutely loves them. She thinks that all animals should have that kind of voice and opportunity to kind of tell their story. So she's been kind of like creating finger puppets and, uh, pretending to be the creature in question. And that I, I suspect, is very much inspired by listening to messages from the wild. And it's really sweet watching her kind of create little story scenarios between like a robin and a worm and they're sort of telling each other about their facts and that I recognize some of them from messages from the Wild. That

Annabel (: 00:04:58

Was so nice to hear. I love hearing that. It's like my seven year old nephew who said to my brother the other day after listening, he said, so dad, we shouldn't kill spiders. And he said, no we shouldn't. No, we really shouldn't. They're useful, they're important. He said, but, but mum kills them. , yes, but we won't with a difficult conversation. Um, but it really does go in, as you say, from eight to 80 or seven to 90. It does go in and it does remain a thing where they sort of question, they look at an animal in a completely different way. I do. They do. We do. Anyone who's heard it in a completely way thinking no, I pick up earthworms from the pavement constantly and put them back in the grass. They're probably really crossed to me as I fling them back across the grass and they go flying through the air.

Annabel (: 00:05:45

It's probably a really new experience for them, but I know for a fact that they don't wanna be on the tarmac. So I suppose it, it can lead on to anything. And it leads on to even more curiosity of um, how the animal world works. Yeah, yeah. And plant, I have interviewed a few plants, . I never talk about interviewing the expert. I never talk about their name. I always talk about the animal or the plant. I say, well actually I did an oak tree the other day, or I did a mole Yeah. The other day. But, so I, I think I'm getting mad and as I get older,

Rachel (: 00:06:16

Yeah, it's, it's lovely that connection that your experts are, are so willing to kind of get into character as well. Have you got any favourite experiences that you had while you were recording some of the episodes?

Annabel (: 00:06:30

Uh, I feel really loyal to all of them, so I don't want to single anything out, but it's just moments with some of them that were really extraordinary. Like some of the things I learned and made me almost weep. I was interviewing a silky shark recently and you can imagine it's pretty tragic being a shark. Um, if you live in certain part of the ocean without pointing any fingers, I think I said to her, does anything scare you? Does anything frighten you? And she said, well, if we get caught up in a fishing net, they'll cut our fins off and keep the fins and put our bodies back in order, but we're still alive. And we roll and roll and roll and roll and roll and roll down to the bottom of the ocean and just lie on the bottom ocean still alive as we get pecked at by other animals in the sea.

Annabel (: 00:07:14

And when you hear it from that animal, it's really hard to hear. I found that really hard to listen to. The other thing that's really fascinating is a lot of times the experts, you can tell why they studied that animal. So the peregrine falcon spoke really fast. You think, oh yes, okay. You really are a Peregrine Falcon because they are the fastest animal, the fastest bird, um, vertically in the world, not horizontally apparently, which is the swift, I can't remember. I'm quite surprised how they, you know how some people say their, their owners and dogs sort of look like each other? Yes. It's like that. It's a bit like, ah, yeah, okay. That's so natural that you would be that animal because you are just like it. So I wouldn't pick out any particular special moments. They're all special. I'm so grateful to all of them even saying, yes, I don't pay them to do this. They're really kindly doing it for nothing. And so I love them all. They're all absolutely. Yeah. They're, they're my gang. I love them.

Rachel (: 00:08:15

Yeah. Well, that's brilliant. So you mentioned that there are a couple of facts about nature and uh, things that you've learned. Is there any sort of favourite facts that you've discovered?

Annabel (: 00:08:26

I've got a new one on the website, which is the tardigrade. Have you heard of the tardigrade? Mm-hmm. Yes. We all know about tardigrades. So, um, the tardigrade is this microscopic animal that lives in moss. You can't see them with the naked eye, but they are about 600 million years or 300 million years old. And they are indestructible and they go into this thing called cryptobiosis where they can just sort of dry up for I think up to about 30 years possibly. And then a drop of water will bring them back to life. I mean that makes humans look so ridiculous, doesn't it? Yeah,

Rachel (: 00:09:05

No, they're amazing, aren't they? Are they the creature that can like survive in space as well, I think Yeah.

Annabel (: 00:09:10

Space down a volcano. Yeah, in under the ice up in space. They're completely indestructible and they look completely alien when you see them. The pictures I've seen microscopic pictures that I've seen online and they're also known as water bears or moss piglets. And they do look like I said, a really sort of chunky eight-legged teddy bear with a weird round mouth. I mean they're totally alien. They're like something from Star Trek. So that has been, if I could say a favourite, that would kind of be a favourite. Um, in as much as I was so fascinated by it, it was just extraordinary. Oh, but I mean the house spider. Okay, the house spider. So you know how we're all a little bit suspicious of how spiders, cuz they run really fast along the carpet or the floor whenever they're in your house and it's a little bit off-putting and you sort of want to put your feet up on the chair and just make sure it gets where it wants to get without climbing up your trousers.

Annabel (: 00:10:07

And so I asked the house spider, you, why do you run so quickly? Cause it's a little bit creepy when you do that. And he said, we don't have any lungs. So we take oxygen through our skin and when we've got it, it's like fuelling the car and you have to run really, really fast with all that energy and then you have to stop and wait for it to fill up again. So they can't constantly move. They have to quickly dash around and they're absolutely terrified of where they are as well. So they're dashing into the nearest dark corner away from humans and then they're waiting and stopping and going, come on, fillup, fillup, fillup. I mean that's just incredible as well. I

Rachel (: 00:10:42

Was just gonna ask you if there are any books or other resources apart from Messages from the Wild that you've found really quite inspiring around nature?

Annabel (: 00:10:50

I don't think I'm alone when I say that I have a pile of books, um, that need reading or that I even weirdly recommend to other people having not read them. I dunno if you have, if you ever do that. Yeah,

Rachel (: 00:11:01

Yeah, yeah. Heard books from other people. Have you

Annabel (: 00:11:03

Read this great. And they're like, all right, what's it about? And you say, well, , anyway, I'm trying to find time to read books now. Seems like a weird place. But I have had serious inspiration from books over the years to do with Messages in the Wild. The first one that my mum gave me out the blue, it's just so beautiful. It's called Extraordinary Insects, um, I dunno how to pronounce that. It's this book. Yeah. I'm just showing it to you on the screen. Yeah.

Rachel (: 00:11:38

After we spoke last, I actually went and got that book. So I've got a copy too.

Annabel (: 00:11:43

Oh, please read it. It's so, yeah,

Rachel (: 00:11:45

It started it,

Annabel (: 00:11:46

It's so brilliantly written. I think that's created my love for beetles and anything little, I'm much more interested in the little things than I am really in the big things. That's my first and most favourite, which will never leave my home. Um, the one I've just started, which has been in my show for ages, is called The Secret Network of Nature by Peter Wohlleben, German writer. And he wrote I think the Secret Life of Trees, uh, which almost had me in tears as well because he is so attached to his trees. But the secret network of nature is this extraordinary, um, story of how all of nature kind of works together. You know, it's a network. They have to work together. I don't want to be too down on us, but I don't think we are part of that. Somehow that network, we seem to have separated ourselves from that.

Annabel (: 00:12:35

Yeah. From that network. But meanwhile, all these animals are working together and if you take one out or you take some species out, then it's like taking um, a card out from the bottom of the house of cards. People do say that you don't really know what's gonna happen. Doesn't mean it'll completely collapse, but there'll certainly be some, some real challenges out there. And he just has an incredibly clever way of writing. And then this one I'm going to read on a train when I go up actually on the bus to London, um, next month. And it's a very old book that was published in, first published in 1956 and it's called The Last of the Curlews. Last of the Curlews. You can see it's quite an old book. And I'm going up to a talk about Curlews in London in December and I thought I would read about it.

Annabel (: 00:13:26

It's really sad I've started it. It's very sad. You know, it's about even in 1958, it's about how the numbers reduced curlew population and they're really serious at the moment. And uh, but they were hunted in those days. They were eaten and so understandably they would've reduced dramatically then. And now it's just a whole lot of other reasons. But, um, so happy and sad books about nature and there are so many, so many, so many, so many coming up all the time, aren't there? I mean there's thousands of possibilities out there and it's really hard to choose and to find the time I have to personally have to get on a bus or go to a cafe. Sometimes I read at home, but I'm, I'm better off going out. So yeah, those books I completely and utterly love.

Rachel (: 00:14:14

Yeah, no, I feel the same way to be honest. I've recently offered to do book reviews for people just because I realized that my reading habit was getting out of hand . And uh, so I've had a few people send me ebook versions of their books to kind of give them a review on, you know, independent bookshops and sites like that. It's been feeding my habit a little bit. Uh, and at the same time I'm helping out other people as well. So it's kind of like win-win. Um,

Annabel (: 00:14:40

Are you reading them online?

Rachel (: 00:14:42

Yes. Yeah. To help them, uh, get readers to go and buy their books. Yeah. And uh,

Annabel (: 00:14:49

Yeah, but it's a shame.

Rachel (: 00:14:50

I mean, yes, it would be lovely to receive a physical copy, but a lot of authors, especially if they're self-publishing, can't afford to do that, can't they? Yeah. But it would be nice to sort of, um, see, especially at Christmas time, it'd be lovely to see people buying from independent bookshops, uh, physical books. There are so many brilliant small retailers that really, you know, they specialise in a whole range of, um, natural history and those kinds of topics in, in their bookshops. And supporting writers who write about that I think is really important, isn't it?

Annabel (: 00:15:26

I always send my nephew a book on nature every birthday and so he's getting more and more interested. And so I think it, it's up to us to give books to people to encourage them I think to especially to small people to read.

Rachel (: 00:15:39

Have you got any sort of suggested sort of nature activities that you think will help either individuals or people with families to get more involved or, or maybe get back that connection with nature?

Annabel (: 00:15:53

Um, I recently did an interview with a, um, a young botanist called Laur from Sweden. I dunno if you've heard of him. And he is the most incredible botanist. He's kind of cool and good looking and young and really inspiring. I mean, I say that I I in the nicest possible way because um, I think young, young people will look up to him and think, I wanna be like him. He's cool and he's out there, you know, getting close to nature and getting close to wildflowers and he gets very excited about wildflowers and about beetles and bugs and flies and bees and all the connections there. But he, when I interviewed him, cause I do these interviews for Countryfile Magazine, sometimes these podcasts he had on his mobile phone, he had one of those microscopic cameras. Ah yes. So you can zoom right into the flower or the beetle or the what have you.

Annabel (: 00:16:49

And he took a photograph of a bloody-nosed beetle, such a great name. They are absolutely beautiful. But he took a photograph of one of his legs so the body was kind of quite out of focus in the background and its leg was very in focus and it was the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. And these beetles don't fly, so their legs are terribly important. Their feet are very important. And they did look very strong. It looked almost if it had five knees . And so I would recommend getting one of those. They're like, I think they're under five quid or something. They're really cheap. And I would recommend getting one of those on one person's because there's no way we're gonna avoid mobile phones. Everybody says, oh leave your mobile phone home. It doesn't work like that. We take them with us. If you're gonna take one, get someone in the family to put that little camera, you clip it on, you get them really cheap online, you clip it on and you go and look at even, you know, imagine a daisy and you can look at it really closely think, oh my God, this is incredible.

Annabel (: 00:17:50

So that would be a recommendation for understanding in more minute detail what nature is. I think that's my thing at the moment anyway. Yeah, yeah. And listening to messages from the Wild, obviously

Rachel (: 00:18:04

Yes, of course. So personally, what actions are you taking at the moment to make that connection with nature? What do you enjoy doing?

Annabel (: 00:18:17

I go out, um, I often go out on guided walks. I was out on a guided walk recently at Slimbridge Wetlands Trust at Slimbridge to uh, go and see the ducks ones who'd come in from Russia. And I'm always asking a lot of questions about, you know, with the lovely Matt who is our guide about where they come from and how they survive and what they do, all this kinda thing. I think curiosity is, I was born curious and I'm really lucky, which is why I do what I do. And so I want to know more. I'm also doing an art drawing glass. And um, I was told the other day on this birdwalk by one of the other people on the walk, she said, when I go home I always draw the birds that I saw, even if they aren't very good drawings and it makes me remember them much better.

Annabel (: 00:19:03

So I get out as much as I can. I definitely get out at weekends and then I'll come home and try and draw whatever I've seen just to remind me of what I've seen. So I think it's that rather than just going for a walk and not really noticing, it's about noticing and coming back and then, and then thinking about it and spending time on it. And I think we always, I don't know personally, I think there's so much to do at weekends, you know, our work is never done. It's like, oh, even if you're not working, working as a freelance, you're kind of cleaning or hoovering or washing or doing all these kind of things. And the idea of going out for a real long walk and maybe having a pub lunch and walking a bit more, it's almost like we feel guilty for doing it because there's so much to get done at weekends and that's just rubbish because we can do that other stuff in the week in our lunch breaks or in the evening or take an hour out of work to do more, you know, just to do it because these weekends where it's not pouring with rain also that's the other time to do all the um, housekeeping is during times of rain, you know, it's really heavy.

Annabel (: 00:20:08

I've got a lot of cobwebs in my house cause I've got a lot of cell spiders, but I don't, I can't touch them and I have to, I talk to them all the time, so it's okay. You're safe, it's okay, you're safe with me, it's fine. I have got someone coming around tomorrow. So just make sure you're not very visible. And um, so I think finding ways of allowing yourself to go out on your own or with other people. You don't have to be with other people all the time. There's plenty of safe walks that aren't very far from home, I think. Well I'm talking about Bristol. So if you're living in the middle of nowhere, I have no idea. But then as you're living in the middle of nowhere, you probably know your area very well, so it wouldn't really matter. But, um, that's my thing. Yeah,

Rachel (: 00:20:50

That sounds excellent. Uh, a really nice way to kind of de-stress as well and just sort of be in the moment. Absolutely. Mm-hmm. So I'm curious, what's next for messages from the wild? What, what episodes will we hear next?

Annabel (: 00:21:07

I'm about to do a series on soil for somebody. So I will be looking at more, um, earthworms and nematodes and springtails and hopefully fungi and plants and bacteria and all their little intertwined relationships that keep soil healthy. I'm really excited about that because my journey with Messages from the wild started on soil and now I'm going to be doing a whole series on soil. So that's really cool. So that's coming, um, next summer. That'll come out into the Lost Gardens of Helligan actually. And um, I've recently done a series on um, ocean animals and I think there'll be more of those to come for sure. Cuz we don't see them, so we don't really consider them because they're kind of invisible to us unless we're watching them on the tele or scuba diving or what have you. So I think they're really important to bring up, especially because I recently interviewed a plankton, um, phytoplankton and um, I said, would we miss you if you were gone? And he said, well, considering we pro provide 51% of your oxygen. Yeah, . So I had no idea that phytoplankton allowed us to breathe. I had absolutely no idea. And if I didn't know, I can't be alone in that. I really can't be. I mean, yeah, I'm not, I

Rachel (: 00:22:44

I think it was only this year that I discovered that myself as well. And that was cuz I was doing some work around, um, carbon and offsetting and seaweed and, and things around that. So yeah, it is really interesting what we don't know, isn't it ? What

Annabel (: 00:22:57

We don't know. There's so much we don't know and we need knowledge. We need to be curious and we need to know more. We really need to know more. And, um, yours and my work is helping with that, right? Finding interesting ways of people learning. The more I do messages in the wild, the more I interview these incredible people, the more I learn, the more removed I feel from humans. Funnily enough, I sort of think, whoa, animals are so extraordinary. I met an incredible underwater photographer the other day, a world-renowned underwater photographer who's very famous, photographing sperm whales. He has no fear of being underwater, even in a collection they're called, uh, there's a special name for them when they're all in one big group. And they are so huge, these animals. And um, he finds it really hard to communicate with humans now cause of Covid. And having spent so much time under the water and in covid not seeing that many humans, he really finds it very difficult. He gets quite anxious in a crowd and I can appreciate that I'm not living underwater with sperm whales, but I can appreciate that. You know, the more you learn about animals, the more you look at our particular animal, the human, and think where do we fit into all of this? And we're not that bad. We're pretty bad. We're pretty bad

Rachel (: 00:24:16

So if anyone would like to listen to the episodes, where can we find messages from the wild?

Annabel (: 00:24:26

Uh, well there is a podcast Messages from the Wild Podcast, which is on all the podcasting places. Um, and my website messages from the wild.com has all the latest, um, animals on it, including all the animals that are down that have come out in the lost gardens of helicon. So there's some brilliant ones on there, really fun ones like, uh, bufftailed bumblebee and Pig is very funny. Um, there's another hedgehog, there's a shire horse, and there's some really fun rare breeds on there as well. And, um, the ocean series is also on my website, which I think is really important. Those animals that live in the ocean, they're just surviving in amongst our trash. That's, you know, but we don't really see that, do we? No, we don't see it happening. We don't, am I being really unfair to humans? Am I down in humans too much? Rachel, am I being too mean?

Rachel (: 00:25:25

I think, I think there is a, um, sense of we should be more responsible. We sort of see ourselves as um, somehow higher than the animals. Um,

Annabel (: 00:25:34

Percent. But actually

Rachel (: 00:25:36

We're, we're not. And I, I think there does need to be that kind of recognition of it. So no, I, there are some amazing humans out there doing amazing things around wildlife and conservation and medicine and science, all sorts of really interesting, exciting stuff to support everybody and animals of, uh, ourselves as animals. So yeah, no, I think it's worthwhile saying it isn't it that we've detached ourselves from the other animals and we've kind of made ourselves be this, almost put ourselves on a pedestal and removed ourselves from our innate animal qualities that we should be kind of really being more aware of. Um, and we are unfortunately having a negative impact, but isn't just on animals, it's on, it's on everything, isn't it? I mean, we've gotta reign it back in. It's too late for some things already, so we need to do something about it. And, um, I think it's okay occasionally to be a bit down about stuff. And it's also great to hear all of the wonderful things that you've learned as well, and the positive stuff that people are doing and the, the experts that you've interviewed and their passion for talking about their favourite animal subjects and the work they do, uh, by communicating the background stories about these, these animals and what their lives are really like. So no, I think it's absolutely fine. .

Annabel (: 00:27:05

Good, good.

Rachel (: 00:27:07

So we mentioned about where we can, uh, hear the episodes. Are you on any social media?

Annabel (: 00:27:13

I do have an Instagram page now, which is quite new, so that would be nice if people went onto that. Uh, messages from the Wild.

Rachel (: 00:27:20

Yeah. So let's all show some support for Annabel and messages from the Wild. It's been really lovely talking to you again, Annabel, and I'm sure we'll talk again very soon. So thanks for today. Nice to see you.

Annabel (: 00:27:33

Lovely to see you. And um, hope to meet you in the flesh one day. That

Rachel (: 00:27:38

Would be brilliant. I'd love that too. .

Annabel (: 00:27:41

Thanks Rachel. Thanks.

Helena Podcast Outro (: 00:27:45

Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Curious About Nature. If you would like to keep getting nature and outdoor learning stories and tips, hit subscribe in the podcast so you never miss an episode. Don't forget to give a five star rating and review to support our podcast. Reach to deepen your child's connection with nature and natural world education. Please check out the Nature Curious subscription box. Head over to the website buttercup learning.com to further support your family's nature journey.